Sorry for such a long time between blogs. Family is doing well, check Jamey's blog to read more.
Thought I'd throw out a few items to discuss for anyone that still reads my frequently updated blog.
What do you think about universal health care?
War in Iraq?
Who do you want to win election? Who do you think will win?
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28 comments:
Obama wins election....get universal health care....employers who had better health plans drop plans to meet inferior gov't plans and employers with no so good health plans lay off workers to be able to afford gov't health plan...troops get pulled out of Iraq and Al Queda takes control again( scenario has been repeated many time in middle east..romans, england, sunni's...now us) slowly but surely we creep into a socilistic society. Dem's lose office in house and presidency in 2012 in landslide victory by the new conservative party
My thoughts;
Universal health care--very, very bad.
War in Iraq--not about territory or oil but about an ideology that will take over the world and attempt to crush Christianity if not checked.
Who for president?--none of the above. I agree with Jon--looks like Obama at this time, but all are socialists with liberal leanings. Holding out hope of an independent jumping in late.
I'm going to write in Roxy Wishum for my vote! ;)
Okay, I'll jump on and add my thoughts. Some of them.
Universal Health Care...this is a very bad idea. One that if you really thought about it doesn't work. I pray this does not happen...or my job industry will turn upside down.
Iraq...why don't people understand its not about oil. Its about safety. Our nations safety and the safety of the whole world. I agree with Roxy and Jon I am afraid Obama is going to be running our country. I am not in favor of any of the three that are in it. I wish there was a way to rally the country to vote for a write in. Our country is in for a hard 4 years.
It would be helpful if everyone who thinks trying to design a system that makes healthcare affordable to everyone is such a terrible, terrible idea would explain the reasons behind this belief.
@jon: if you assume that affordable healthcare is something that should be available to all in our society and if you have a healthcare system in which most people receive affordable healthcare through their employers, then you're right that something will have to change for employers whose business is not adequate to provide that to their employees...and I think it should if you have a system that relies on that mechanism. That is, it seems like you're arguing the universal healthcare would break our system but with an argument that demonstrates that our system is already broken.
@brooke shands and @roxy wishum: you're right, Iraq isn't only about oil...but it is certainly part of the story. And some believe (with some evidence) that the Bush administration was plotting with energy companies about Iraqi oil even before 9/11 (link). Yes, it's about safety. In my opinion, the war in Iraq has made us less safe (distracted us from other activities more directly related to our safety, provided a wonderful recruiting tool to al Qaeda and a home in Iraq where there was none before). On the positive side, it scared Gadaffi in Libya sh*tless. I think we have to ask ourselves whether or not our goals for Iraq are practically achievable and affordable (in terms of human and economic cost) and whether our continued occupation of Iraq on balance makes us safer or not (yes, we're preventing the utter chaos that would likely result from the vacuum of our departure but are also giving the Iraqis the luxury of not having to deal with their problems themselves as well as playing right into the Islamist propaganda that we are an aggressor desirous of occupying "Arab lands").
@jon: Yes, the Iraq war is about al Qaeda...but let's not forget that it is largely a problem of our own making...because al Qaeda was not it Iraq before the war and generally had poor relations with Iraq because it was a secular society rather that an Islamist one.
I don't know what path would lead to the optimum outcome regarding Iraq, but I do know that the current situation is not sustainable for us or them.
Election: Who I want to win? Obama. Who will win? Obama
Glad some people actually still check the blog.
My opinions: Not sure about health care, something has to be done, but there are too many countries that have tried universal care without much success. Many in Canada are against it now. Something still has to be done to the skyrocketing cost of health care. And we have too many uninsured people.
Iraq: Think we need to set some realistic goals and get out. Leaving without accomplishing some goals would not be a good idea, but we cannot continue to keep soldiers over in an area we will never have democracy work.
Who will win election? Mcain.
Who do I want? None of above.
After reading jonmower's LENGTHY comments, why was I not surprised to see he wants Obama to win? :-)
My opinion: Chuck Norris for prez!!! ;-)
@lerra: THANK YOU for the encouragement. It makes me feel special to know how much I am appreciated.
I've been thinking about your question all weekend, Kenny. I'd love it if I could go in a laboratory and create a candidate / party that represented the best ideals on both sides of the aisle. As it is, I guess you just have to vote your conscience.
I wonder if many of us would even vote for ourselves if we had to write out how we stood on every issue. There are a few that I am solid on, but many of the economic issues I am not even sure how I feel.
I'm with you, man.
i thought unniversal health care was good until my dad told me the other side of the story. thanks, oprah for leading me astray. we're all screwed with the peeps up for election.
Jack Bauer for president!
Universal Health Care?
http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurgery.php
A short course in Brain Surger
A story of Two Women
http://www.freemarketcure.com/twowomen.php
There are X Million Uninsured people in America? Really?
http://www.freemarketcure.com/uninsuredinamerica.php
check those out for the anti-Oprah View.
Old but not out - MamaKat
Election - If Hillary can pull out the candidacy, she'll lose to McCain in a roast. If Obama wins the Dems ticket, he'll be the second black President of these United States.
Universal Health Care - The thought is admirable. It's human kindness at it's core. Every American should have some form of healthcare. On principle, you've got no argument from me. Execution, however, is a different story.
I'm not going to pretend I know what is wrong with the current system nor do I know exactly what will heal it's terrible ills. I will tell you that if you want to know if universal healthcare is a good idea, look at the countries that have it/have tried it. I think the same pitfalls that got Social Security in the downward spiral from which there is little hope of escape will likely be the same that will crush universal health care. It's is no secret that, if given the choice, the population of the world would get their health care from America.
I'll tell you what, you figure out a way to give every American Healthcare without my having to pay for it (directly or indirectly) AND prove that the quality of care is just as good or better than it is now, and I'll vote for it.
Good luck with that one.
War in Iraq - My brother faught in it. I was sick for 14 months until he came home in one piece.
Simple plan - as soon as the Iraqi government can police, govern, and protect itself, 100% of American forces should immediately exit the country.
The troop surge obviously worked. Therefore, we should be moving towards a more expedient end to this conflict. God, I hope so.
FIRST - HAppy Birthday my son!
Second, We are probably never leaving Iraq no matter who gets elected. Barak may say he's pulling out immediately but once Hilary saw some real Intel she started backpedaling and so will he. Which will be interesting with his base being so anti-war. We are curently building bases in Iraq and I predict we'll be there for the next 50 years as a stablizing force. The numbers, however, will always be up for debate. Germany, anyone? Kat
@kat: I haven't yet had a chance to watch the videos you linked (I will), but I would say that's it's not too hard to fight anecdotes with anecdotes. Living not too far from the Canadian border, I personally know several people who have gone to Canada for elective surgery because it was so much cheaper than it here. The difference in the prices of prescription drugs between Canada and the U.S. is well-documented.
People cite rationing as a likely downside to a system that makes healthcare more widely available. I think there is some truth to that (e.g., I have a friend from France who tells me that MRI machines are not nearly as available there as here), but I would argue that healthcare is already rationed here based on ability to pay rather than some more equitable criteria. As a devotee of a certain dude with the initials J.C. who had a clear mission to minister to the poor, weak, and powerless, I want better for them in our society.
I certainly have so simple answers for out healthcare problems, but I know there is much room for improvement. For example, see this summary (link, hold your nose because it's from a liberal mag) of the findings of a study comparing health care attitudes and experiences from patients in Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
@j. canterbury: about the surge. It worked in the sense that violence is down from one intolerable level to another intolerable level, but it isn't a success until it achieves its state goal: giving the Iraqis enough breathing room to make the hard political choices/compromises for the progress necessary to get their country on track...so that we can start bringing troops home. I don't see too much evidence of success there.
@kat: I would put it differently. I think we'll be bringing a big fraction of troops home regardless of who is president because our current troop level is not sustainable unless we institute a draft (which ain't gonna happen). I agree that we'll probably have a significant number of folks there for a long time.
jonmower - simple problem with Iraq is the same problem that has been created here with welfare...the US Gov't has become iraq's personal 911 call center the same with welfare - if something is wrong the gov't should take care of it for me.
If universal healthcare is so much better then why don't you go live in Canada oh wait that's right you would have to get on a waiting list to have operations done because it is up to gov't to pay for it. silly me.
Like James said - the idea is not wrong it is that there is no way to fix it that works. I end up paying for someone who refuses to get off of welfare and get a decent paying job because if they do they will be over the wage ceiling to live in the projects and have to pay normal rent or mortagages like the rest of us and also pay out the wazoo to have decent health care provided for their own family.
- GO MA and HAPPY BIRTHDAY KENNY!
@jon: I would respectfully suggest that the "love it or leave it" argument is convenient but not very helpful in an honest discussion. Pick any issue that you're unhappy about, and I could say the same thing. Don't like our welfare system? Why don't you move to country X where there is little or no welfare? Opposed to abortion? Why don't you move to El Salvador where it is illegal? I live here because this is where I want to live. There is no reason that should prevent me from thinking about ways to make it better.
Do you know anyone on welfare? I don't (or I may, but I don't know it), but my impression is that it is not, as a general rule, possible to "refuse to get off welfare" as a result of the welfare reform of the 90's.
I'd also comment that it seems that resentment over paying for someone else is a big part of the opposition to healthcare reform. Maybe it is the forced aspect that is so bothersome, but otherwise I find that attitude hard to understand from a follower of Christ...at least it is not an attitude I can relate to.
@kat about those videos.
brain surgery: That's surprising that private insurance is banned in many Canadian provinces. I don't think that is proposed by anyone here and there's not chance it would fly if someone did. Based on discussions with European friends, I understand that there it is common to basically have two healthcare systems...one private for the rich and one public for everyone else. The difficulty that causes is the temptation for doctors to gravitate to the higher paying private system, leaving the public system with a doctor shortage. Maybe that is what some Canadian provinces are trying to avoid with the ban on private insurance. In my opinion, that vid lost some credibility when it claimed that the Canadian system has "failed miserably." Seems like an exaggeration to me.
two women: that's obviously a big problem that would have to be addressed...how to make sure that the supply of medical services is adequate for the demand...and as the population ages the problem will get worse. Also, the problems described here regarding the government delaying or denying procedures in Canada remind me of the stories in the US of HMOs doing the same.
uninsured in america: It states that 38 % of the uninsured have household incomes over $50,000. OK, but that 62 % (> than 20 million) who are below that. That's who I am concerned about. And I think even $50,000 or $75,000 could get stretched pretty thin pretty fast for very large families. I understand that some people who lack insurance do so by choice. I also know that the poor tend to use the emergency room as their general practitioner. This is not efficient and drives up the cost for all of us. Offering insurance isn't an overnight solution. Some behavioral changes are also needed.
There are bigger issues that concern me too...for example, the lack of emphasis on preventative health care. It is more profitable to treat rather than cure. And the recent reports of insurance companies asking doctors to inform on their patients (link). And how much money has our system convinced us to spend on anti-depressants whose benefits over placebo are in question (link)? Denial of coverage do to "pre-existing conditions" is another big problem. Kenny and I have a common online friend who has gone through this recently (link).
JMower: Some of your thoughts are good. I would agree Jesus asks us to take care of the poor and all on here would agree that we "the church" and individuals are failing miserably at that. My issue is with the government forcing me to do that. I should take care of the poor as Christ wants me to, but the government forcing me to is not what I want. I prefer less control so that I can do what I think I should as a Christian.
The more I think about it the more I am convinced that less government is better. Not so I can keep my own money, but I can decide who to give to.
Not sure that makes sense...
I can't believe that I'm actually going to comment on this string of comments...and I have a few more opinions that I have time (or desire) to stand here and type out.
Buuuuut.... I do want to say this...
Our government is by no means perfect. The healthcare and welfare systems are both broken and need a solution. I do not know that there is a perfect way to fix these problems. Of course there are a million ideas--of which I agree with a couple.
My main thing that drives me crazy is when people use 'having the attitude of Christ', or "JC" as reason to provide EVERYTHING to EVERYONE, no matter what.
Let me say that I see one of the main differences in the way the Republican party and the Democrat party handle social issues is how much to give BY MEANS OF THE GOVT.
The GOP as a whole generally rejects social handouts and universal healthcare. The Democrats generally want to give, give, give...and feel like it should come from the people who have the most--whether those people agree or not.
I know MANY Republicans, and I dare say that they are not stingy people who do not want to give anything to anyone b/c "I worked for it, why can't they?" Most of the people I know are GENEROUS. They want to help. They can have the attitude of Jesus. They just feel that it's not the GOVERNMENT'S place to regulate that.
Granted, there needs to be some general standard for the quality and pricepoint of healthcare...but in regards to welfare...
Getting to my biggest soapbox...in my eyes, the social differences in the political parties all boil down to whether or not someone has to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. While there is a number of people whose situations are NOT related to their personal choices and truly do not have any responsibility in their situation, I believe that group is small in relation. The rest of the people in the system are in their situation b/c of personal choices--and our system has taught people "When you get in a bind...go on welfare. The Gov't will pay for your life."
I am not against HELPING anyone. I am against ENABLING people to deny responsibility in their choices to continue in a lifestyle that 'requires' assistance in finances and healthcare.
It sounds peachy to want to give healthcare universally and spread the cost to all...but I have a problem with paying for that when someone is on their 8th baby and has no job. I have a problem with that when someone has jewelry, clothes, and a nice car but then they choose not to pay their rent or buy groceries.
I feel that these people need help, but not a handout. They need to be guided and taught--then helped. This is where the attitude of Christ comes in...this is the job of the CHURCH to take care of people...not the GOVT. If the church, as a whole, across the country/world, stepped up and truly acted as Jesus, the need for a government welfare would not be as great.
I DO know someone on welfare. She was living an irresponsible lifestyle that caused her to meet irresponsible people. She made irresponsible decisions. She irresponsibly got pregnant. She went on welfare. She STILL goes out and parties. She STILL lives in the SAME irresponsible lifestyle. WE are paying for her life.
This makes me angry. I don't want it to sound like I'm hard-hearted. It's very easy to critique an entire healthcare system, an entire war, an entire welfare system in one swift glance. I understand that on a case by case basis it is easy to dispel these critiques and provide examples of how the systems are helping individuals be their best and get back on their feet. This is the part of criticizing any system that is hard.
I may be a bit calloused. I just want people to take some responsibility for their actions.
That's all.
Whew.
p.s. I've been saying that in my head for months....you let me know...am I way off base here?
Kenny, I agree with your comment right before mine. It wasn't there when I started typing my LOOOONG comment (I don't know how you finished typing yours first! :) Ha)
Anyways...Happy Birthday!
One other thing...Jason...I have heard you say a few times "If you could make up your own candidate..."
So...if you could make up your own candidate, what would he do?? If you went through the list of qualities cafeteria style, what things would you pick? How would he handle/fix these issues? I'm not so sure even "making up" a candidate would be easy or able to fix everything or do everything 'right.'
@Stacy: Thanks for the comments. We've been discussing the merits and problems associated with making sure that everyone in our society has a minimum level of healthcare. I have not been talking about giving "EVERYTHING to EVERYONE, no matter what." I wouldn't support that either. That's something we can agree on. The welfare system probably serves us best as a safety net rather than a perpetual entitlement, and as I understand it our system has limits and checks to discourage chronic reliance.
I share your experience that people are generally generous and willing to share. That's why it seems so strange to me that so many people are so adamantly opposed to something like universal healthcare. I think it is probably related to the non-voluntary nature of taxes (though I also know that Jesus did say something about rendering to Caeser) and, as you pointed out, a resentment that many people live such irresponsible lifestyles.
I agree that we should have some concern about enabling bad behavior rather than encouraging good behavior. However, I think that's a secondary issue. That is, I think the primary issue is providing for the needs of the poor which shouldn't be abandoned because some people would take advantage of it. I would agree that there it is Biblical to encourage people to be responsible for there actions, but I would argue that the message of Jesus regarding the poor and downtrodden is first one of compassion and service and secondarily one of instruction regarding personal responsibility (a message all of us could use to hear from time to time).
I agree that ministering to the poor is a role for the church, and that responsibility is not diminished regardless of what the government does. In my opinion, one of the main roles of government is to protect the weak and the poor from exploitation by the rich and powerful, and I think it is admirable that our society seeks to insure that basics needs of all are met. Though the church can play a big role in this, it is not appropriate for the government to rely solely on the church.
sincerely,
your liberal punching bag
@jonmower - thanks for the idea of showing who you are responding to, BTW.
I held my nose and checked out your link - interesting - as are the ones I linked. My 17 YO told me he saw a new bumper sticker '80% of statistics are made up' probably true. I do agree with Ken that something in USA healthcare needs to change. I just don't trust a government controlled program to 'fix' our problem.
And about Iraq - I think we are in agreement about a force remaining there for the foreseeable future. DH and I were discussing this and he mentioned our military bases in Japan as another example.
I'll go finish reading now - I think Ken achieved his objective of starting a conversation :) MamaKat
Wow. This discussion has really taken off since the last time I checked in! I guess blogging about politics is a surefire way to get the comments to pour in!
On the welfare discussion, it's interesting to look at how the governance of Israel was established in Scripture. In the context of discussing the Sabbatical year, Moses commands Israel to especially regard the poor in Deuteronomy 15:4, "But there will be no poor among you." Translators say this sentence is best understood as carrying the tone of a command, which is evident given the context. In a land filled with blessing and God's provision, there is no excuse for poverty to exist. The law goes on to say, "If among you, one of your brothers should become poor...you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend to him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. You shall give to him freely and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake," (15:7,8,10).
Implicitly, this passage gets at the heart of poverty. It's not that God screwed up and didn't make enough to provide for His creation. It's that greed and accumulation corrupts humanity, creating "haves" and "have nots". But if we all shared God's blessing through acts of distribution, poverty wouldn't exist. Jesus says, "You'll always have the poor with you," because He knows our human propensity for hoarding and accumulating. But the ideal in Israel was that poverty could be averted if everybody helped out. The concepts of release and return that correspond to the Year of Jubilee seem to speak to that as well.
Of course, this isn't apples and apples, since Israel was a theocracy and America is a democracy. I understand that. My only point is that in the way God set things up initially, it WAS the government's responsibility to care for the poor. And that principle is an important one for me as a Christian citizen as I go about exercising my rights to elect those who will govern us.
I agree with the points that have already been made: truly caring for the poor involves creating a system that preaches accountability and responsibility. I'm confident that our welfare system is doing exactly what Stacy says: enabling irresponsibility. That needs to be changed. But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think there is real danger in dismissing the entire welfare system on the basis of the "lowest common denominator". Certainly changes need to be made. But the ideal of taking care of those who are truly in need is incredibly biblical. More so than I realized.
Over the last two years, I've been amazed to discover how much of scripture speaks to God's concern for the poor, which is something that shouldn't be lost on those of us who are Christians. This will be the first time that I'll take into account a politician's plan to effectively combat poverty both locally and globally when deciding who to vote for. I think that's one of the things Christians are to consider in times like this.
Sorry for the behemoth post. All of this probably makes no sense. I've just been studying this lately and thought it was germane to the discussion. And sorry for all the Scripture references. What can I say, I'm a preacher (sort of)!
As for your question, Stacy, this post is already WAAAYYY too long for me to get into any of that. Maybe another time.
Hey Kenny,
Don't think I've ever posted on your blog before...but some comments on universal health care. I agree that something has to be done about the rising costs, but I think the solution goes deeper than "affordable" health care. The root casue of rising premiums is that doctor/surgeon fees are going up. Why are they going up? Malpractive insurance is out the roof! Why is malpractice insurance up? Attorneys and liberals who make the general population believe they are owed everything and that doctors should know everything. This is not to say that we should hold doctors to a lower standard of care...but we forget that doctors are kind of like car repairmen...you have to research, test, and yes, sometimes make mistakes to diagnose. Now, for the surgeons that operate on wrong body parts...well, they have no excuse.
@jason: I think that's an excellent summary of the Biblical view of the attitude God desires his people to have for the poor.
Like most issues, the full picture is multidimensional and not trivially simple. For example, at least within the church body, Paul had an expectation that individuals would make an effort to provide for themselves:
2 Thess. 3:6-15
6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." 11We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. 13And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. 14If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
And you eloquently made the point I was trying to get across...that whatever concerns we have about our welfare and Medicaid programs, their merits should not be judged based on "worst-case scenarios" and that our response should first and foremost be one of compassion and service, not suspicion, demonization, etc.
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